Mothering magazine published a story about the dangers of Soy consumption that has royal pissed off a number of high profile vegans and vegetarians. Most notably John Robbins who wrote a letter to the editor bashing what he considered a misleading approach to the topic.
From the Article:
How Much Soy Do Asians Really Eat?
Those who dare to question the benefits of soy tend to receive one stock answer: Soy foods couldn’t possibly have a downside because Asians eat large quantities of soy every day and consequently remain free of most western diseases. In fact, the people of China, Japan, and other countries in Asia eat very little soy. The soy industry’s own figures show that soy consumption in China, Indonesia, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan ranges from 9.3 to 36 grams per day.1 That’s grams of soy food, not grams of soy protein alone. Compare this with a cup of tofu (252 grams) or soy milk (240 grams).2 Many Americans today think nothing of consuming a cup of tofu, a couple glasses of soy milk, handfuls of soy nuts, soy “energy bars,” and veggie burgers. Infants on soy formula receive the most of all, both in quantity and in proportion to body weight.In short, there is no historical precedent for eating the large amounts of soy food now being consumed by infants fed soy formula and vegetarians who favor soy as their main source of protein, or for the large amounts of soy being recommended by Dr. Andrew Weil, Dr. Christiane Northrup, and many other popular health experts.
What’s more, the rural poor in China have never seen-let alone feasted on-soy sausages, chili made with Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP), tofu cheesecake, packaged soy milk, soy “energy bars,” or other newfangled soy products that have infiltrated the American marketplace.
Here’s an excerpt of Robbins’ response.
The article’s author, Kaayla Daniel, repeatedly says that people of China, Japan and other countries in Asia eat very little soy, so there is no historical precedent for eating the amounts being recommended by people like Dr. Andrew Weil and Dr. Christiane Northrup. This is a misleading half truth. It is true that in parts of Asia, most notably China, soy consumption has been low. But Asia is a very large area with several billion people.
What’s important is not the average soy consumption for the whole of Asia, but the soy consumption in those parts of Asia which demonstrate the highest levels of human health. And there is no question about where that is. The elder population of Okinawa (a prefecture of Japan) have the best health and greatest longevity on the planet.
This is important because the highest soy consumption in the world is in Okinawa.
He goes on the talk about the benefits of having soy in your diet. Unfortunately in the end Robbins goes on his own diatribe against cows milk in which he makes some hideously misleading statements of his own, including:
-Cow’s milk provides more than nine times as much saturated fat as soy beverages, so is far more likely to contribute to heart disease.
-Soy beverages are cholesterol-free, while cow’s milk contains 34 mg of cholesterol per cup, which again means that cow’s milk is far worse for your heart and cardiovascular system.-Soy beverages lower both total and LDL (“bad”) cholesterol levels, while cow’s milk raises both total and LDL cholesterol levels, providing yet more reasons soymilk is better for your health.
SKIM milk is not bad for you. EVERY study that ever said anything bad about the heart negative effects of milk used milk with fat in it. Period.
I lived in Japan as a kid, and grew up eating Japanese food all the time. Soy in the form of Tofu and Miso was a staple at my table. I love these foods, and I’m not about to give them up (any more than I’m giving up milk). But, as is true with so many things, moderation is the key. Too many vegetarians and vegans rely solely on soy for their protein intake, and that is where to problem lies.
If you are a serious weight trainer (if you’re reading this, that means you) then you have a very high protein requirement. Do everything in your power to keep your protein sources varied. Too much of a good thing is … well, you know the rest.
And here he is discussing Milk
I’ve got a few things to say after reading.
First off, the use of soy as a dairy substitute for infants is disgraceful. I say this knowing that many will disagree, but infants should be breastfed if at all possible. While some women take this too far, breastfeeding into early childhood, and sometimes as late as 8 years old (sick and wrong), I think that the most healthy and natural way to bring a child into the world is best. Studies about this issue are mostly in favor of breastfeeding, which promotes healthier immune systems and other benefits for the younglings. Cow’s milk is certainly no substitute for breastfeeding of course, and so the idea of baby formula is necessary for those women who cannot nurse. Let’s face it, the idea of a nursemaid is kinda creepy and weird. HOWEVER, I also believe that veganism is a choice for individuals to make. Parents have the responsibility to do what is best for their child’s health and well being. Genetically and naturally, infants NEED animal products, namely breastmilk. In the case that this isn’t a possibility, the best substitute should be chosen. I’m not convinced that plant products are even close to being the next best option. Parents who do not make choices because of their child’s health, but instead because of their personal feelings about animal products are bordering on neglect, in my opinion. Further, Children need lots of fat content to support their growing brains and fast metabolisms. I’m not saying feed them straight bacon grease, but skim milk is inappropriate for children.
NEXT, I eat lots of beans.
Finally, I love milk. Especially whole milk. Unfortunately I can’t drink it and maintain my boyish figure. Milk is also great for hydration. A tall glass of milk after a run is fantastic.
Thanks for the comment. I am totally with you on the breast feeding issue vs. soy milk formulas. I’m shocked, given the ample research, the people will often still choose NOT to breast feed (exempting those people who can’t for medical reasons).
Soy is both a major part of traditional healthy diets and a part of modern industrial agriculture. Many of the soy products offered today seem to straddle this divide. Are we eating a lot of soy products because they are healthy or because there is a lot of it available?
As a vegetarian weightlifter, soy is one of my many protein sources. I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I probably get most of my protein from dairy sources. I get the remainder of my protein from eggs, nuts, beans, and grains. I used to do the protein shake thing (Whey because it tastes better than soy), but now I eat a cup of cottage cheese after my workouts instead. I don’t feel like I have problem getting enough protein. The amount of eggs, cheese, and nuts that I add to my food I would say is controlled more by my love of those things and not the desire to squeeze as much protein as possible into my diet.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/nyregion/12ironman.html?scp=1&sq=Joe%20Rollino&st=cse In the news recently; Coney Island strongman Joe Rollino died at 104. Apparently he was a lifelong vegetarian…
Thanks for the link, Chris! That article is awesome.
I definitely think vegetarians like you and Joe Rollino are in a far easier place than vegans. You have access to dairy products and eggs. But, a vegan is largely stuck with soy, nuts, and beans. And while that’s fine if you’re not lifting hard all week, if you are, then stuffing down 150+ grams of protein from those sources will be tough.
Again though, any study that has suggested the soy is bad for you used very high doses far beyond what any of us would be inclined to use. And let’s face it, high doses of nearly anything are bad for you … even water!
In general, I’d say everything in moderation. Soy is a great source of protein, but you don’t NEED it to be a healthy vegetarian. Just like you don’t NEED meat to be a healthy human. Some vegetarians maybe should cut back on the amount of soy they consume, and most nonvegetarian/vegans should cut back on the amount of meat they consume, especially red meat, for many reasons.
Americans want an easy answer to “being healthy”. My advice: ignore the media when it comes to their rendition of scientific results and anyone who claims that you can be fit without any effort on your part. Most importantly, pay attention to what you eat, try new things, take the time to learn about what you want regarding your health and fitness and how to achieve those goals, stop being lazy about it, and for Christ’s sake stop with the self-imposed guilt about it all! Everything, from soy to guilt, in moderation.
My girlfriend Laura and I don’t eat much soy. We eat cereals, veggie sausages and burgers with soy, edamame and tofu around 2-4 times a week. We get most of our protein from dairy products,especially yogurt, half & half (big coffee drinkers these days), cheese and cottage cheese, the occasional egg, and different combination’s of nuts, legumes, veggies and grains.
The recipe that you included in your newsletter is very close to a meal that we make relatively often. We also eat fish and burgers on rare occasions. I, for one, do not often turn down meat when people serve it at parties or dinners. I like the taste of meat, but Laura does not. She is more veg than me and is also in much better shape. She eats throughout the day. I have a harder time with that in general, but am better when I exercise regularly. Neither one of us have been on a high activity-gain muscle regime for awhile, so we’re not too worried about not getting enough protein right now.
I’m planning to go on a moderate to high exercise-lose weight-gain muscle regime as soon as my knee heals (old injury acting up) Laura joined a soccer league and we will both start going to the gym again. We’ll need to up our intake of protein, and calories in general. We may start craving burgers more often, and we’ll probably give into those cravings at times, but there are plenty of options other than soy and meat to keep us active and healthy.
Amen sister! I particularly liked this quote of yours:
“Don’t trust … anyone who claims that you can be fit without any effort on your part. Most importantly, pay attention to what you eat, try new things, take the time to learn about what you want regarding your health and fitness and how to achieve those goals, stop being lazy about it, and for Christ’s sake stop with the self-imposed guilt about it all! “
In Japan where the most soy is consumed, the largest quantities are in fermented forms. Unfermented soy like tofu is used sparingly in dishes and certainly not part of a daily diet. Miso, on the other hand, is used in almost everything.
Omnivore, vegetarian, or vegan, I think we would all do best to be prudent in our use of animal products (for the sake of land and water resources, if nothing else) and try to consume at least one fermented food item daily if not at every meal. Looking back at ancient cultures, you’ll find that fermentation played a large role in diets all around the world.
In the case of soy, fermentation breaks down exactly those goitrogens (responsible for thyroid disruption), phytates, and ensyme inhibitors that cause the health problems related to soy consumption.
And while it’s not directly related to this discussion of human health, the political and potential ecological impact of modern soy production (primarily Round-Up Ready soy from Monsanto, genetically incapable of natural reproduction and designed to be saturated with chemical fertilizers and herbicides) might have an impact on your choice to use so many soy products.
I like the grandmother rule (Michael Pollan): If your grandmother wouldn’t recognize it as food, don’t eat it.
Tofu: My grandmother wouldn’t recognize it, but someone else’s grandmother would. TEST PASSED.
Soysage, soyrizo, soybacca: FAIL!
@Jeme – I eat a fair amount of fermented food, but not at every meal. And you’re right, in Japan tofu is mainly a side dish. It isn’t something one would build their meal around.
And, any discussion about body health necessarily implies an underlying discussion about ecological health, since that’s where all this food comes from. Animal production at such a large scale has a lot of major negative impacts, including just excessive methane gas production! But, as you said, soy has it’s own problems … actually all commercial farming poses its own risks. With populations as large as they are, “how to feed us all” isn’t a trivial question.
@Tom – Ah, but the rule is “if YOUR grandmother wouldn’t recognize it as food …” So, its a xenophobia-perpetuating dictum!